Follows the inexorable rise of Carlton Leach from one of the most
feared generals of the football terraces to becoming a member of a
notorious gang of criminals who rampaged their way through London
and Essex in the late eighties and early nineties, resulting in
three members of his firm being wiped out in the infamous shot-gun
slaying at Rettenden.
Cass: Interviewing Carlton Leach, an old pal of mine, we go way
back, back to the old Stratford, Wanstead and Woolwich firm days,
crazy days of taking the shed. Best firm you ever run with, Carlton
and best firm you ever come against?
Carlton: The best I ever run with was obviously, when I was young we
was all 16-17-18 getting our stripes, I would say the old TBF days
of the Teddy Bunter Firm when we were just coming through the ranks.
I think that was the best one because everyone knew everyone, it was
close knit... So we grew up with that firm and the people. The West
Ham Mile End era we were a bit too young and then we come through
and there was Bill Gardner and TBF and all that and obviously we
went on, but that was the cornerstone wasn’t it.
Cass: Yes it was. I think we come of age when we took on the Chelsea
shed end and when they looked for the big ’uns, it was just us. We
started without them. Anyway what’s the best firm you’ve ever come
against yourself.
Carlton: Best firm – well firms up north I’ve rated over the years…
but obviously Millwall, you’ve got to say Millwall, always Millwall.
Testimonial ........... Harry Cripps. Yeah. I was young. But remember
the time we all went down there and we were all down the Old Kent
Road and they ambushed us. They came out of pubs, cars, they had
tools every where, it’s got to be them innit.
Cass: Question 2 then. The link with Sham 69 and West Ham was
because the ICF took over as roadies and minders. What was your best
memory from that music scene time that came about late seventies?
Carlton: Well obviously we all got webbed in when Vince Riordan
become their roadie that we all got involved within the Sham and I
think West Ham just put their name to it. It was a great time. One
of the best times I had was at one of their concerts at Canterbury
Odeon and we were all there sitting around as the band were doing
the sound check thing for the concert when all the sudden 20 -30
Hell Angels walked in. We all looked up and everyone was shitting
themselves, we were like early twenties then, but these were like
monsters coming in, proper geezers and then we realised that was the
gig security because they stood round the whole stage and they were
as good as gold with us. But that was a great weekend. Dave Cassidy
was there, Dickle, Grant Fleming, all the old faces.
Cass: And then you were around for the Cockney Rejects, yeah?
Carlton: Yeah, we carried on didn’t we? Obviously all had tours
going and we were all touring with them and all that. I remember
Vince rang up saying they’ve got an afternoon gig for kids in
Sheffield, two o’clock in the afternoon. So we all go round in the
morning, got in the van, got all the stuff up there, set up. We
thought it was a little concert for youngsters, like kids. It was
full of punks and geezers. I remember fucking getting covered in
spit, spit, spit. And all these punks were gobbing, swearing. In the
end we all just lost it. I just run up and booted some geezer in the
head. All the tables went and everything. It all kicked off, it was
that kind of culture.
Cass: Question 3 – In the bestselling book,
"Congratulation you Have
Just Met the ICF", when we had the battles with the Scoursers in the
snow and that professional kick boxer took a flying leap through the
air at me. You were alongside me, do you remember?
Carlton: It was a kick-boxing family from Liverpool – our fighters
were fighting their family, the brothers, yeah they were shit hot,
he come flying through the air and hit you straight on the chest. It
was heavy snow all around so you’re trying to keep your feet on the
ground as well.
Cass: But he bounced straight off me. But I remember that time we
was all on the same coach and everything else. It was crazy days,
mad times, but something I’ve always been dying to ask you. You were
the first one to get away from all that. I mean fair play to you,
you were a major face in them days but you managed to cut out and
that isn’t an easy thing to do.
Carlton: But I was moving into other things, Cass. I was getting
into a heavy lifestyle I think. We was under the telescope weren’t
we a lot with the Old Bill? Everywhere I was going, like games, I
used to get pulled out. They knew your name, they knew everything
about you, do you know what I mean? I was moving into other areas,
like a criminal lifestyle and so it was obviously going to affect my
life there and that’s what was becoming my money earner, whereas
before all our money was going on West Ham, we lived and died West
Ham. Thing’s have changed haven’t they? You’ve got to change your
lifestyle and move on, you know what I mean.
Cass: And then came after that was another period of moving on, the
Rave scene. So what are your best memories of the Rave scene is
question 4?
Carlton: I should think 88 when it was all underground, no-one knew
about it. It was set up in warehouses, going in warehouses and
setting them up. Fucking just four or five thousand people just
turning up and dancing all night. Mad.
Cass: Was that with Centre Force or anyone?
Carlton: That was Genesis.
Cass: Question 5, What did you make of the Rave scene because you
were involved with doors and it was a totally different contrast
wasn’t it? Someone like you would have seen it from both sides of
the door.
Carlton: The Rave scene broke all the barriers from north, south,
and coloured. I think West Ham never really had a bad colour thing
going on; there wasn’t that much racism even though there were
elements of NF and all that shit. I think it’s probably the best
club where everyone got on with each other. But I think the Rave
scene broke all the barriers.
Cass: You reckon?
Carlton: Yeah I do. From London, north, east, west, the lot. It
broke the barriers of the wider field with north. I mean east was
always east wasn’t it. But all of a sudden you got to meet people
from the other side of the fence for the first time, yeah because of
the love scene but especially the football scene in London with
east, west, and north. We were going down to raves like the Downham
Tavern in south-east London with our boys standing there in
dungarees with a West Ham tattoo’s and we’ve got the Millwall lot
standing next to us dancing, all out of our nut. I think people have
got to realise that these boys are the same as us, just they wearing
different colours. I use to think east was untouchable, but as you
grow up you meet different people and they no different to you and
that goes all over the country. Some people just live and die
football 24-7. Obviously you grow older, you’ve also got to grow old
gracefully and accept things.
Cass: Nice answer. Question 6: Worst incident you’ve ever faced on
the door personally.
Carlton: Being shot at. Yeah. But luckily – This geezer missed me
because he was a crackhead, he come for me. I’d turfed him out
earlier on in the early hours of the morning and he come back with a
9mm. I mean we’ve worked doors together and everyone’s done doors.
But until you’ve actually had a gun fired at you. I mean you’ve been
shot Cass, but I ain’t. But you know that fucking noise, the
feeling. I don’t know, I think that’s the ultimate test I think but
it’s not a club you want exclusive membership with.
Cass: My question 7: Is it true you once claimed to be the fourth
Essex boy in the News of the World article about the gangland Range
Rover murders that happened in Rettenden this was quoted? And is
that true and how close were you to the Essex boys?
Carlton: The Essex boys were a name that the media and public
latched onto. Look me and Tony were best mates. He had his security,
I had my security.
Cass: This is Tony Tucker.
Carlton: And then we joined forces. I always looked out for Tony,
Tony looked out for me, and we become close friends. Pat Tate came
out. Craig Rolfe was always there, Craig was just like Tony’s
sidekick, he was always there. First were friends and then we done
business and obviously we become very close and when Pat come out, I
took a step back because I had my own interests at heart, other
things I was doing.... But as for the fourth Essex boy, the Essex
boys is the name that the media give us.
Cass: That dispels a few myths.
Carlton: All we were was a firm. Cass you know that. All of us as
we’ve grown up, we’ve always been like a firm, but it’s always been
a firm built round friendship with the same goals and the same
interests. People outside who don’t know, go that’s a firm. Look at
that firm over there. It’s just people jumping on the bandwagon
also; there are a lot of people out there making money off it. I can
understand that. Good luck to them. But at the end of the day I know
the truth.
Cass: Nice one, well put so moving to my question. 8: You did the
ICF thing, you did the club thing, you did a book, and now its lead
into a film based on your life story. Can you tell me any more on
that, like title, release, actors, who is playing you? Just a little
brief on the film really because it’s gone from the streets to the
book and now into the movies.
Carlton: No problem. The film’s called Rise of the Footsoldier.
Obviously I done a book called Muscle which is about my life, but
this is about the actual things I got up to, the other side of my
life if you get what I’m saying. I’ve tried to tell a true story, an
inside story, how a young kid from East London, like yourself, you
grow up, join the football scene, you earn your stripes, get your
name, you go on the doors. The doors lead to other things, other
doors then open, and you get involved in criminal element, drugs.
And it’s a roller coaster. All it is, I’m just telling a story that
I think – also the story of ICF, how it started off as a kid, the
comradeship, how all these young kids grew up. You’re one of them
people Cass. Where we are today is because of our background. And
that is the story of 20 years of my life. But also I want young kids
to see that, how your stripes were earned. Also it ain’t a glamour
world. When you become a man, you start losing your best friends,
people get shot, and people go inside. There’s a lot of pain, a lot
of grief. It ain’t a happy-go-lucky Hollywood lifestyle. Reputations
have a price to pay. And the story I’ve told is one that I’m hoping
people – not glamorise it as such, but also they will go, yeah I was
there. I know everybody who grew up around me will see a bit of them
in that film. There’s a part of everybody in it, and that’s what we
need to do, tell a story.
Cass: I think you’ve done that. I wish you all the best with that
movie when it comes out this year in September. I think you’ve
rolled into the next question really, question 9 that is do you have
any regrets in life?
Carlton: No, you can’t have any regrets, Cass. There is regrets but
if anyone says would you do it all again, I’d go yeah. We’ve all got
regrets...
Cass: Right Carl, it’s a big block you’ve been around mate. What are
your future ambitions? What are you up to next? You’ve done so much
is question 10.
Carlton: You don’t know, do you? I think now it’s because you’re
more relaxed, other doors open. It’s like they’re talking about
giving me parts in films. I don’t know.
Cass: Did you play any role in your own film like make a cameo
appearance?
Carlton: Yeah, I played a football hooligan and there’s a little
scene, a lovely little scene, we’re having a running battle with Man
United and the actor playing me is, Ricci Harnett. They get
ambushed. They chase this Manc, go down an underpass and the Mancs
come from both ends. So all the Mancs turn and it gets naughty, I
pick myself up. I push this Manc off. I go, you all right mate? He
(Carlton) goes, yeah. And then we get up and then we chase them
together.
Cass: Good luck with it all Carl, because I know exactly where
you’re coming from. I’ve read your book and I’ve had quite a few
moments back in the day that will stay with us together with you.
But that’s me and you and the boys. But you’ve got a whole new
market out there pal so have you got a message for us all and
watching West Ham today.
Carlton: I love West Ham, love the comradeship with the fans and
supporters I think that’s the strong attraction to West Ham, I think
the supporters and the way they are and the history. One thing with
a West Ham fan, you know from like 16, you can go the 30 years of
your life and go back and you’ve still got that friendship. Other
friends will come along all your life, but West Ham fans are true,
true. It always will be, and I think that’s what it’s about,
history, history of the club, West Ham.
Cass: They put that club up as a shrine, but no-one lives there
any more, you know what I mean. Half the time you don’t feel like
it’s your club, it’s only the fans that stand together United that
keeps it as your club.
Carlton: And the stories we tell.
Cass: And the history. Top man, Carlton thanks for going
toe-to-toe with us.
Carlton Leach is a man to be respected, cross him at your peril.
Copyright
© Cass Pennant 2007
Rise of the Footsoldier; cinema release 7th September 2007
Muscle published by John Blake, ISBN: 1-904034-48-9
